Minua luultiin jatkuvasti Englannin natiivipuhujaksi lomalla. Kelpaanko lapsesi opettajaksi?

Ja ihan sinut asian kanssa... En ymmärrä miksi sitä pitäisi jotenkin hävetä - ihan samanlaiset aksenttinsa on niin ausseilla, jenkeillä kuin briteilläkin.

Suomalainen tankero ei ole natiivitankeroa. Natiivipuhujat puhuvat kaikki tietynlaisella rytmillä ja nuotilla, joita ei esiinny suomalaistankerossa. Suomalaisen tankeronpuhujan puherytmi on kielelle ei-tyypillinen, joten esim. lausejakoja on vaikea hahmottaa. Samoin suomalaisille tyypilliset virheet, kuten s/he-virheet ja virheet prepositioiden ja artikkeleiden kanssa, vaikeuttavat ymmärtämistä.

Itse en pitäisi ap:tä erityisen hyvänä lausujana siksi, että joku on kiinnittänyt huomiota hänen aksenttiinsa. Ei se silti tee hänestä välttämättä huonoa opettajaa.

Must have been quite a shinding

where everybody is discusssing your accent. Not the first thing I talk about when I meet new (native) people.

But I agree otherwise. When your English is native level, no one mentions it.

The person you thought was a native tells you that they come from Finland. If you heard a foreigner speak Finnish flawlessly wouldn't you be a bit surprised by it and tell them that?

I don't think they would. My husband is a native English speaker and when we're on holiday no one asks him why he's with a Finnish wife and children whose English isn't perfect. They assume he lives in Finland. We go on holidays couple of times a year in resorts with Brits and no one's ever mentioned his accent to him. Mine they always compliment, but only because it's obvious I'm not a native speaker.

Must have been quite a shinding

where everybody is discusssing your accent. Not the first thing I talk about when I meet new (native) people.

But I agree otherwise. When your English is native level, no one mentions it.

The person you thought was a native tells you that they come from Finland. If you heard a foreigner speak Finnish flawlessly wouldn't you be a bit surprised by it and tell them that?

I don't think they would. My husband is a native English speaker and when we're on holiday no one asks him why he's with a Finnish wife and children whose English isn't perfect. They assume he lives in Finland. We go on holidays couple of times a year in resorts with Brits and no one's ever mentioned his accent to him. Mine they always compliment, but only because it's obvious I'm not a native speaker.

Picture this: your English speaking hubby goes to a pub in Finland and starts speaking flawless, native-like Finnish to Irja, the local bar frog. He tells her (in perfect Finnish) that he's an Englishman and has just moved to Finland. You seriously think that Irja wouldn't say anything about your husband's ability to speak fluent Finnish without a trace of a foreign accent? I certainly would!

kai se kielitaito sitte menis. opetustaidoista en tiedä mitään ja tämän ketjun osalta vaikuttaa sen verran rasittavalta että siitä miinusta. plussaa siitä jos on hyvät tissit, eli muodollisesti pätevä. vois edes niitä kattella ku se selittäis sitä sun tätä lasten opetuksesta ja kehuis naiiviuuttaan.

Must have been quite a shinding

where everybody is discusssing your accent. Not the first thing I talk about when I meet new (native) people.

But I agree otherwise. When your English is native level, no one mentions it.

The person you thought was a native tells you that they come from Finland. If you heard a foreigner speak Finnish flawlessly wouldn't you be a bit surprised by it and tell them that?

I don't think they would. My husband is a native English speaker and when we're on holiday no one asks him why he's with a Finnish wife and children whose English isn't perfect. They assume he lives in Finland. We go on holidays couple of times a year in resorts with Brits and no one's ever mentioned his accent to him. Mine they always compliment, but only because it's obvious I'm not a native speaker.

Picture this: your English speaking hubby goes to a pub in Finland and starts speaking flawless, native-like Finnish to Irja, the local bar frog. He tells her (in perfect Finnish) that he's an Englishman and has just moved to Finland. You seriously think that Irja wouldn't say anything about your husband's ability to speak fluent Finnish without a trace of a foreign accent? I certainly would!

So ap wasn't on holiday then? I didn't read the thread very carefully but got the impression she was.

There are millions of Brits all over the world and to come across a Brit who lives outside the UK is not rare. I've met dozens of them and the accent just isn't an issue. You can meet British people anywhere and to other Brits this is just about as interesting as your health status or embroidery hobby.

If you come across a Finnish-speaking Brit in Finland, this is a rarity and would be worth commenting on. Having said that, if an English person speaks perfect Finnish, the fact that they originally come from England would probably not even come up in the conversation with Irja.

Must have been quite a shinding

where everybody is discusssing your accent. Not the first thing I talk about when I meet new (native) people.

But I agree otherwise. When your English is native level, no one mentions it.

The person you thought was a native tells you that they come from Finland. If you heard a foreigner speak Finnish flawlessly wouldn't you be a bit surprised by it and tell them that?

I don't think they would. My husband is a native English speaker and when we're on holiday no one asks him why he's with a Finnish wife and children whose English isn't perfect. They assume he lives in Finland. We go on holidays couple of times a year in resorts with Brits and no one's ever mentioned his accent to him. Mine they always compliment, but only because it's obvious I'm not a native speaker.

Picture this: your English speaking hubby goes to a pub in Finland and starts speaking flawless, native-like Finnish to Irja, the local bar frog. He tells her (in perfect Finnish) that he's an Englishman and has just moved to Finland. You seriously think that Irja wouldn't say anything about your husband's ability to speak fluent Finnish without a trace of a foreign accent? I certainly would!

So ap wasn't on holiday then? I didn't read the thread very carefully but got the impression she was.

There are millions of Brits all over the world and to come across a Brit who lives outside the UK is not rare. I've met dozens of them and the accent just isn't an issue. You can meet British people anywhere and to other Brits this is just about as interesting as your health status or embroidery hobby.

If you come across a Finnish-speaking Brit in Finland, this is a rarity and would be worth commenting on. Having said that, if an English person speaks perfect Finnish, the fact that they originally come from England would probably not even come up in the conversation with Irja.

The point is that when someone introduces herself as "Minna from Finland" and starts chatting away like a native English speaker, any Brit (ask your hubby if you don't believe me) would say something about the astonishing accent, or lack there of. And why wouldn't your husband tell Irja that he's just moved to Finland? Is he ashamed of his Queen or something?

[ Otherwise they wouldn't have said to me that I sounded a bit posh, would they?

Regards,

ap

olet tosiaan provo tai et ainakaan minun lapsilleni opeta englantia jos taito tätä tasoa...

[ Otherwise they wouldn't have said to me that I sounded a bit posh, would they?

Regards,

ap

olet tosiaan provo tai et ainakaan minun lapsilleni opeta englantia jos taito tätä tasoa...

Mikä tuossa lauseessa on väärin? Itse en löytänyt virhettä, vaikka olen lukenut englantia yliopistossa sivuaineena.

The point is that when someone introduces herself as "Minna from Finland" and starts chatting away like a native English speaker, any Brit (ask your hubby if you don't believe me) would say something about the astonishing accent, or lack there of. And why wouldn't your husband tell Irja that he's just moved to Finland? Is he ashamed of his Queen or something?

Ap was on holiday. She's not moved anywhere. I've sat next to my husband in numerous bars and pubs when he's said we're from Finland and no one's commented on his accent. Other Brits have sometimes asked what he does in Finland or why we dont live in the UK, but no one's told him how great his English is :)

Ap was on holiday. She's not moved anywhere. I've sat next to my husband in numerous bars and pubs when he's said we're from Finland and no one's commented on his accent. Other Brits have sometimes asked what he does in Finland or why we dont live in the UK, but no one's told him how great his English is :)

There's no point complimenting someone's accent if they are native :D

But other Brits have probably noticed that he's English and ask questions about his hometown in the UK. If, at that point, your husband was to say "No no no, I was born and raised in Hyvinkää. As in Finland. I've just learned to speak English at school." they would probably say something about how he could fool anyone with his accent...

Ap was on holiday. She's not moved anywhere. I've sat next to my husband in numerous bars and pubs when he's said we're from Finland and no one's commented on his accent. Other Brits have sometimes asked what he does in Finland or why we dont live in the UK, but no one's told him how great his English is :)

There's no point complimenting someone's accent if they are native :D

But other Brits have probably noticed that he's English and ask questions about his hometown in the UK. If, at that point, your husband was to say "No no no, I was born and raised in Hyvinkää. As in Finland. I've just learned to speak English at school." they would probably say something about how he could fool anyone with his accent...

First of all, if my husband is asked about his hometown he says he's from our hometown in Finland. This is usually not a problem to anyone. He might mention he's originally from the UK, but that's kind of obvious anyway. People will ask what he does here or why he lives here if it's not obvious from my presence anyway.

Besides, I know a couple of foreigners in Finland who speak perfect Finnish, and have been out and about with them, and their country of origin hardly ever comes up. If they say they're from Ylöjärvi or Viiala, that's fine with most people. I mean, do you tell your lifestory to some strangers in a bar or by the pool?

Ap was on holiday. She's not moved anywhere. I've sat next to my husband in numerous bars and pubs when he's said we're from Finland and no one's commented on his accent. Other Brits have sometimes asked what he does in Finland or why we dont live in the UK, but no one's told him how great his English is :)

There's no point complimenting someone's accent if they are native :D

But other Brits have probably noticed that he's English and ask questions about his hometown in the UK. If, at that point, your husband was to say "No no no, I was born and raised in Hyvinkää. As in Finland. I've just learned to speak English at school." they would probably say something about how he could fool anyone with his accent...

First of all, if my husband is asked about his hometown he says he's from our hometown in Finland. This is usually not a problem to anyone. He might mention he's originally from the UK, but that's kind of obvious anyway. People will ask what he does here or why he lives here if it's not obvious from my presence anyway.

Besides, I know a couple of foreigners in Finland who speak perfect Finnish, and have been out and about with them, and their country of origin hardly ever comes up. If they say they're from Ylöjärvi or Viiala, that's fine with most people. I mean, do you tell your lifestory to some strangers in a bar or by the pool?

If on a holiday someone asks you which part of England you come from originally and you correct them by telling them that you are a native Finn. I can easily believe that this is what happened to "ap". After hearing that she's not a Brit residing in England but an actual foreigner, most courteous hosts would compliment on the way this person speaks a foreign language.

This kind of small talk sounds perfectly normal to me, but what do I know... You must know better since your husband is a true Englishman.

I'm off to bed now, but we can continue this tomorrow :D

I meant to say "a Brit residing in FINLAND", of course.



It's getting rather late.

...tässäkin ketjussa taas kerran näkyy suomalaisille tyypilliset piirteet: toisten vähättely, kielioppiknoppailu, paikallisilla kielikuvilla heittely näyttääkseen, että kyllä lähtee, sekä ennen kaikkea se, että on tosi väärin, jos suomalainen puhuu jollakin muulla kuin rallikuskiaksentilla. Niin ja se, että ulkomaalaisten kommentit ovat aina piilovittuilua tai julkista vittuilua.

...tässäkin ketjussa taas kerran näkyy suomalaisille tyypilliset piirteet: toisten vähättely, kielioppiknoppailu, paikallisilla kielikuvilla heittely näyttääkseen, että kyllä lähtee, sekä ennen kaikkea se, että on tosi väärin, jos suomalainen puhuu jollakin muulla kuin rallikuskiaksentilla. Niin ja se, että ulkomaalaisten kommentit ovat aina piilovittuilua tai julkista vittuilua.

Minä luulen, että suomalainen katsoo näitä kielikohteliaisuuksia vähän eri vinkkelistä kuin vaikka englantilainen tai amerikkalainen.

Itse olen kehunut Suomessa useammankin ulkomaalaisen suomen kielen taitoa tosi hyväksi ja olen ehkä sanonut ettei heitä natiivista erota, vaikka tokihan sen kuulee, etteivät he ole natiiveja. Itselleni on sanottu samat sanat Englannissa monet kerrat, vaikka minustakin kuulee kyllä melko helposti, etten ole natiivi. Se on oikeasti vaan kohteliasta keskustelua.

kulminaatiopiste?



Huh huh.



Honey, I don't care and never will. Cheers.

Ap was on holiday.

Ei mulla muuta.

...tässäkin ketjussa taas kerran näkyy suomalaisille tyypilliset piirteet: toisten vähättely, kielioppiknoppailu, paikallisilla kielikuvilla heittely näyttääkseen, että kyllä lähtee, sekä ennen kaikkea se, että on tosi väärin, jos suomalainen puhuu jollakin muulla kuin rallikuskiaksentilla. Niin ja se, että ulkomaalaisten kommentit ovat aina piilovittuilua tai julkista vittuilua.

Minä luulen, että suomalainen katsoo näitä kielikohteliaisuuksia vähän eri vinkkelistä kuin vaikka englantilainen tai amerikkalainen.

Itse olen kehunut Suomessa useammankin ulkomaalaisen suomen kielen taitoa tosi hyväksi ja olen ehkä sanonut ettei heitä natiivista erota, vaikka tokihan sen kuulee, etteivät he ole natiiveja. Itselleni on sanottu samat sanat Englannissa monet kerrat, vaikka minustakin kuulee kyllä melko helposti, etten ole natiivi. Se on oikeasti vaan kohteliasta keskustelua.

Siksi epäilen ap:tä provoksi. Ei kai englanninopettajaksi valmistuneen kulttuurinen tuntemus voi olla noin vähäinen?

If on a holiday someone asks you which part of England you come from originally and you correct them by telling them that you are a native Finn. I can easily believe that this is what happened to "ap". After hearing that she's not a Brit residing in England but an actual foreigner, most courteous hosts would compliment on the way this person speaks a foreign language.

This has happened to me lots of times, but I never thought it meant the Brits actually thought I were from the UK :) If they ask what part of the country you're from, it's only because they can't place the accent to Finland, I think. It's more polite to make flattering assumptions (at least ap took it as flattery!) than begin by saying, that ap sounds foreign, from whence does she hail?

natiivipuhumisen arvostusta, varsinkin jos sillä tarkoitetaan ääntämystä. On ihan luonnollista, että ihminen vierasta kieltä puhuessaan murtaa omalla äidinkielellään.

Jos ihminen lukee paljon esm. englanninkielistä kirjallisuutta, seuraa yhteiskunnallisia ja kulttuurisia tapahtumia englanninkielisessä maailmassa, niin tietysti käsitteitä ja idiomeja tarttuu - mutta miksi pitäisi vaikuttaa "natiivilta" kun ei sitä ole? Ja miten yhdistää kieleensä koko englantia äidinkielenään puhuvan maailman?